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#1 "BLANIAC"
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was thinking to myself that it seemed that the value seemed like it was dropping on all of my cars. At first, I attributed it to the idea that everybody (and rightfully so) were looking for the best deal they could get. So I just took sometime and started checking auctions on EBay. I checked many drivers to try to get an accurate crossview. I checked Gordon, Stewart, Kahne, Johnson, Jr. and Hamlin. Along the way I saw others also, but they were pretty much the same.
It seems like everything across the board is about to crash. Brand new Gordon and Stewarts going for $25.00 -$35.00. Now granted there are a few for each driver still somewhat holding their value, but I really found it hard to believe that they are not even bringing the original retail price that they were meant to sell for and they are still brand new releases! I am not a fool, and know that I am not going to get rich on these cars, and I also know that it IS a hobby. But I didn't expect every piece I have to be worth $10.00-$20.00 either.
Are we on the verge of the predicted collapse? I don't know about you guys, but this worries me.....anybody have any ideas what we can do before it's too late? :( :'(
 

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It is the markup of Action. I don't know how much they sell them for to dealers, but it must be dirt cheap for them to sell for that cheap. then again, I don't know crap about buisness :snore:
 

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The Mad Documenter!
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Who cares? A collector doesn't buy trying to make money. People who do that are not collectors at all.
 

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#1 "BLANIAC"
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Billy Kingsley said:
Who cares? A collector doesn't buy trying to make money. People who do that are not collectors at all.
That's what I said. I don't expect to get rich, but I don't expect the lions share of the cars to be worth less than they originally cost. That's why they are called "collectibles". They do have an increasing monitary value, or at least historically "collectibles" did. If I wanted a non-monitary collection, I could collect rocks. I collect because I love the sport, and I marvel at the detail of these beautiful piece of artwork. But it's nice when they appreciate in value.
 

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TCL Original
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If you buy based on future worth, you'll never have a valuable collection. If you buy based on what inspires you or just rocks your world, you'll have a collection that only YOU can put a value on. I've got a room full of cars that would go for 10 times what I paid for them, according to a price guide. I've also got a room full of cars that I couldn't get the amount of money back that I put into them. They are the same room.

These are metal cars, not real estate. I had a 1997 Jeff Gordon Jurassic Park: The Ride bank that lists high in value and could have sold to someone on here for 45-50 bucks (well below that value). It was a cool car and I didn't want to part with it AT THE TIME. Since then, I have given it to a friend of mine who is very new to the collecting world and has become a huge Jeff Gordon fan. He'd never even SEEN the car or heard the story behind it. It no longer meant much to me, but to him it was the sweetest ride he had ever seen. The value of these cars are in the eyes of the beholder, not a so-called guide.

When I first got into collecting, I bought so many cars on eBay that had a huge value in Die Cast Digest. I even tracked it on a spreadsheet; how much I had spent and how much the cars were 'valued' at. It was astronomical! Then I tried to sell some of these highly valued cars and didn't get back what I paid BEFORE shipping and my eyes were opened. I began to refine my collection into the Labontes and the M&M's cars. Thats why I sometimes give away 'high value' cars to people who have a higher appreciation for them.
 

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Im with you on the collectible part, but I always think in the back of my head, what the 1500 or so peices i have amassed since 1989 will be worth in 2009 or 2029. If you collect just for the sole purpose of looking at them thats fine, but I enjoy storing them, showing them off to friends, and think about my collection as an ivestment. Like savings bonds almost. But for you to make money on it you have to trade them like stocks. Sell when they are hot. My oldest car I have is an 1981 or 82 Ertl peice. Autographed Bobby Allison in Mint Condition. I think about what the first 6 Racing Champions Flat bottoms will be worth. At one time my collections list price was $31,000 +. 90% of them are 1/64. I have alot of cars that you could only really find through Dr. Diecast and going to the race track. I remember when you could really only get Promo cars from Dr. Diecast or save the UPC's. Now you let other people do the work and buy off ebay. I think the hobby is strong and 2008 will be a big year with Jr. and COT cars coming out! I continue to save them and collect them. The only thing about a collectible is you can get insurance for them and if something ever happens, (knock on wood this doesnt happen) but a fire destroys them, there is your $31,000 + you could get.
 

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Vengence is Mine
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It is pretty simple to me. There is are more cars than there are people that want them. Supply and demand. The cars that hold their value are the cars that no everyone who wants has.
With 10 or 12 versions of the same car coming out now, it is only going to get worse. Why would anyone pay full price for a car when someone on ebay has it for $1? If I do not get that one, there will be another out there next week for .99 cents.
 

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I think that MA has tried (and failed) to make the cars more collectible by limiting quantities, but older cars just don't seem to be interesting collectors. Some cars show major fluctuations in value (I've seen the Fastbreak sell for under $300 one week and go for over $500 the next) whereas others just don't generate much interest at all. The diecast market is less stable than the stock market, so if there is a piece you really want, patience in key. I just paid just over $200 on Ebay for an original Dale Earnhardt Silver Select No Parts car that a local shop in the mall here has had on display for over $1000 for over two years. They now have it marked for half price, and the car isn't even in the greatest condition.

The Dale Earnhardt Crash car dropped in value with the release of the elite version, and the elite version increased in value. The Under the Lights Elite has dropped in value a couple of hundred dollars over the last year or so. It's really not Action/MA's fault, it's more the internet's fault, because buyers can be more selective. The reason is because we have more access to cars from more sources now. Think about it, before Ebay and the internet, if you didn't have a local race shop or go to a race, how did you get your diecast? You either bought the cheapie car from Wal-Mart or whatever store sold them back in the day, or you didn't get them.

I know I have paid more for a lot of cars than I will ever get out of them, and most of it was when I was new at collecting. There were some cases thought, when I didn't buy a car, and the value increased, so if a car cames out and you don't buy it new, you take the chance that it may be the next Truex Enterprise, Harvick Fastbreak, or other rare car that goes up in value. I buy cars because I like them and plan to keep them; not because of planned resale value. I still plan on getting my Harvick Elvis 1/24, but I have set my price cap and am being patient. I want it for my collection; not for potential resale.

The hobby is what it is, and I think it will continue to have it's ups and downs. I do think that Action/MA has flooded the market with too many variations (bronze, gold chrome, silver, etc.), but they are trying to make $$$, and for them, that's the bottom line!!
 

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#1 "BLANIAC"
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20,242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's funny you say that about the Gordon Jurassic park car. I was talking to a Gordon fan today, that is an avid fan, but had never seen the JP or the Chromapremiere. I showed him the c/w/c's that I have of each, and explained about the metal chassis and the plastic chassis etc. He was fascinated. I think I may give him the JP car. I am like you, I like to further the hobby and I get a charge out of people who like us, appreciate thecars for what they are. I will probably hold onto the Chromapremiere until I die. I am becoming more and more attached to it as time passes.
I collect because, as I said, I am intrigued w.the little works of art that they have become. They are also like little time capsules. Especially the alternate schemes. They lock periods of time in a microchasm for the future generations. I just get a little bummed that what is highly sought after one day, is junk in alot of peoples eyes the next. The numbers don't change, unless Action does something stupid and re-relseases them. I can't figure it out, but I don't see myself ever quiting collecting. I hope the hobby stays here long enough to out live me. BTW, Thanks for the input, and the pep talk guys! I feel a little better now.
 

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Believe said:
If you buy based on future worth, you'll never have a valuable collection. If you buy based on what inspires you or just rocks your world, you'll have a collection that only YOU can put a value on. I've got a room full of cars that would go for 10 times what I paid for them, according to a price guide. I've also got a room full of cars that I couldn't get the amount of money back that I put into them. They are the same room.

These are metal cars, not real estate. I had a 1997 Jeff Gordon Jurassic Park: The Ride bank that lists high in value and could have sold to someone on here for 45-50 bucks (well below that value). It was a cool car and I didn't want to part with it AT THE TIME. Since then, I have given it to a friend of mine who is very new to the collecting world and has become a huge Jeff Gordon fan. He'd never even SEEN the car or heard the story behind it. It no longer meant much to me, but to him it was the sweetest ride he had ever seen. The value of these cars are in the eyes of the beholder, not a so-called guide.

When I first got into collecting, I bought so many cars on eBay that had a huge value in Die Cast Digest. I even tracked it on a spreadsheet; how much I had spent and how much the cars were 'valued' at. It was astronomical! Then I tried to sell some of these highly valued cars and didn't get back what I paid BEFORE shipping and my eyes were opened. I began to refine my collection into the Labontes and the M&M's cars. Thats why I sometimes give away 'high value' cars to people who have a higher appreciation for them.
I started collecting back in 1998 collecting only Earnhardt, then got into Jr. I also tried to get my stepson a few things here and there. I always told him that it didn't matter because, the kids and grandkids will get my collection wen I am gone and they can do with that they want!!! Now 10 years later our son is money hungry and asks me how much he can get for a Earnhardt 1/24 Coca-Cola CWC, I just told him to hold out, because right now it is going very cheap. As of right now the Selling of cars, is very low, becuase of how the market is, VERY DOWN, Look at the stock market!!! Right now, with the price of everything going up and the wages of individuals, Cost of Living, staying the same. People are putting their money where it needs to be, at home and for their kids!!!
 

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#1 "BLANIAC"
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20,242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
tazmania2329 said:
FFighter_21 said:
I was thinking to myself that it seemed that the value seemed like it was dropping on all of my cars. At first, I attributed it to the idea that everybody (and rightfully so) were looking for the best deal they could get. So I just took sometime and started checking auctions on EBay. I checked many drivers to try to get an accurate crossview. I checked Gordon, Stewart, Kahne, Johnson, Jr. and Hamlin. Along the way I saw others also, but they were pretty much the same.
It seems like everything across the board is about to crash. Brand new Gordon and Stewarts going for $25.00 -$35.00. Now granted there are a few for each driver still somewhat holding their value, but I really found it hard to believe that they are not even bringing the original retail price that they were meant to sell for and they are still brand new releases! I am not a fool, and know that I am not going to get rich on these cars, and I also know that it IS a hobby. But I didn't expect every piece I have to be worth $10.00-$20.00 either.
Are we on the verge of the predicted collapse? I don't know about you guys, but this worries me.....anybody have any ideas what we can do before it's too late? :( :'(
fighter thats why i buy cheap and they call me the cheapazztaz..why spend $60.00 to $70.00 for a car that if need be you had to sell you would only get $10.00 to $20.00 for it..i learned a long time ago i used to buy the cars from the dealers spending $100.00 to $200.00 a week with a local dealer at the time..then it hit i needed money and guess what those cars they where selling for $10.00 so i lost my arse.. and vowed i would never again thats why if i cant get it cheap then i dont need it.
i would rather buy 6 cars for $10.00 each then spend $60.00 on 1...more for the money deal..
sorry if insulted you on my offer of your cars i would like them in my collection but 1 cant afford alot and 2 if i got them cheap i would have more money for my family and a nice piece in my collection..to me my family comes first and nascar is somewhere other than that..if you ever decide you got some cars at my price let me know thanks..
No problem Taz, I just like to strike a happy medium. I would pay a little more for a car from a friend, than I would from a stranger. Down the road, the favor may be returned. If not, then ya just make a mental note.
I understand completely though. It is only good financial sense.
 

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tazmania2329 said:
FFighter_21 said:
I was thinking to myself that it seemed that the value seemed like it was dropping on all of my cars. At first, I attributed it to the idea that everybody (and rightfully so) were looking for the best deal they could get. So I just took sometime and started checking auctions on EBay. I checked many drivers to try to get an accurate crossview. I checked Gordon, Stewart, Kahne, Johnson, Jr. and Hamlin. Along the way I saw others also, but they were pretty much the same.
It seems like everything across the board is about to crash. Brand new Gordon and Stewarts going for $25.00 -$35.00. Now granted there are a few for each driver still somewhat holding their value, but I really found it hard to believe that they are not even bringing the original retail price that they were meant to sell for and they are still brand new releases! I am not a fool, and know that I am not going to get rich on these cars, and I also know that it IS a hobby. But I didn't expect every piece I have to be worth $10.00-$20.00 either.
Are we on the verge of the predicted collapse? I don't know about you guys, but this worries me.....anybody have any ideas what we can do before it's too late? :( :'(
fighter thats why i buy cheap and they call me the cheapazztaz..why spend $60.00 to $70.00 for a car that if need be you had to sell you would only get $10.00 to $20.00 for it..i learned a long time ago i used to buy the cars from the dealers spending $100.00 to $200.00 a week with a local dealer at the time..then it hit i needed money and guess what those cars they where selling for $10.00 so i lost my arse.. and vowed i would never again thats why if i cant get it cheap then i dont need it.
i would rather buy 6 cars for $10.00 each then spend $60.00 on 1...more for the money deal..
sorry if insulted you on my offer of your cars i would like them in my collection but 1 cant afford alot and 2 if i got them cheap i would have more money for my family and a nice piece in my collection..to me my family comes first and nascar is somewhere other than that..if you ever decide you got some cars at my price let me know thanks..
I hear ya Taz about being cheap cause I'm there with ya on alot of my collection. With all the diecast out there of each driver you just can't buy everything made unless your into alot of $$$. But then with some stuff I will buy new & full price. But my wife just can't keep me out of the discount bins at the flea markets. LOL I love them $1-15 deals.
 

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NASCAR The Steel Tornado
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1,120 Posts
I attribute the value of things to economics.
Right now the US dollar is worth squat....many PPL are out of work...
This all reflects on ANYTHING collectible.

I'm fortunate to have a job of 19yrs even tho I don't make a lot.
I'm guilty of looking for deals to make my money stretch.

I've always been a trader....more fun to trade than to buy IMHO.

As far as values of diecast....seems like anything but Winners Circle brings a fair dollar.
COT's seem to be fetching good $$$.
Now days it seems than many things are just plain over produced thus drops value.
Limited Editions seem to be the thing to get esp # marked cars.
Just recently I started grabbing Action cars for this reason.
Being a Jeff Gordon fan getting his early stuff Winners Circle is the only option :(

Too bad for Earnhardt Sr fans.....after his passing they saturated the market with tons of his stuff.
Now the value is nominal at best and it's a shame too.

Bottom line.....
Economics reflects on everything.
No matter.....get what you like and grab it while the price is low.
The idea of Collecting is to ENJOY what you get.
SOMEDAY the value will pick up....takes time.
Many of these diecast aren't even OLD yet...give em 20-30yrs.
Look at Hotwheels from 1960's....they are just now fetching a good dollar.
Patients Grasshopper!! ;)
 

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I have been collecting NASCAR diecast since before they became mainstream and I too feel like the Die cast market is on a down hill slide as can be seen by following:

1. There fewer and fewer cars/drivers are being offered.

2. Only 2 Providers left MSA and CFS. CFS is will be questionable until such time as they can offer cars from some of the top tier drivers despite what appears to be higher quality cars for 2008.

3. MSA must not be that interested as they started a WEB Site for the WC/PS series. The WC list that they have listed now has not been updated since May, 29, 2007. Not to mention the removal of the “Contact Us” link.

4. Fewer stores carrying WC. In my area it is Wal-Mart or Target. At one time you could get just about anything NASCAR everywhere.

5. Lower inventories in retail stores with many stores skipping releases. I remember full Isles dedicated to NASCAR die cast. Now you have to look for them. Of the 10 Wal-Mats and 2 Targets in a 30 mile radius, 1 Wal-Mart keeps up to date (whoever handles ordering must be a NASCAR fan), while another Wal-Mart will always have the DE Jr. cars (whoever handles ordering must be a DE Jr. fan). My closest Wal-Mart skips 2 or 3 releases. Of the Targets one is good the other is not. The one K-Mart and two TRU’s have been a bust.

6. Gone are the regular editions of Beckett And DieCast Digest publications with their inflated values.

7. Based on observations cars both prior releases and current are selling for pennies on the dollar. I can only assume what the sellers lose on the price they make up for on the shipping.

8. Drastic reduction in Authorized MSA dealers. I know of only 6 in Texas and 1 in Oklahoma.

And the list goes on.

So today it boils down to the collectors who are into collecting as a hobby not as an investment or a big profit business.

Needless to say it will be interesting to see what the future brings.
 

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Vengence is Mine
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They should produce less to get in line with demand. Overproduction is what drives prices down, plain and simple. It is the first domino in the line.
The collectors snatch up the first wave at regular price. The rest sit there. Be it PitsStops, WC, DS, RCCA, whatever ... there are more cars than buyers. The price then plummets. The sellers have to move the product even if it means taking a loss.
1st thing this does is piss off the guys who paid full price, because now there are guys that are not really that big of a fan to begin with paying pennies on the dollar for the same car.
2nd thing it does is piss off the seller. He is losing money on all this. Be it WalMart, Target, whoever.

Results? Everything we are hearing here.
Fewer sellers carry this stuff. They cannot afford to continue taking the loss.
Fewer buyers. If simply for the fact that no one likes to feel like a fool. Who wants to look at the collection they have paid thousands of dollars for over the year and realize its not even worth hundreds now? The most devote collectors still do not want to buy what ends up being junk.
Those that remain for more than a year or two do what I do. Let the first wave pass, and then buy up the cars I want later when the price drops out. That way, at least I do not feel dumb a year from now when I see the car on ebay for $1 ... cuz thats about all I paid for it anyways! :O)
 

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NASCAR The Steel Tornado
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Hummmmm produce less makes for more future value?
Maybe things will get back to the old days?
Many things are WAY over produced these days.

Makes me wonder why some thinks that 7500 - 15000 of something is a lot?
I would imaging that WC and RC made THOUSANDS of a certain car.

But then again if Action make a certain car limited to say 1 of 1500....
How do we know that there is REALLY only 1500 made and not more? :scared:
Maybe a marketing ploy!

***Just thinking out loud***
 

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Vengence is Mine
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That is half the problem. The "limited" DS version might be limited to several thousand, but because there is likely to be a Pitstop version with several more thousand produced, a WC version with even more piled on and pretty soon even the tightest release has 10,000 cars out there somewhere.

I am not sure it was a whole lot different back in the day. I can still find just about any Jeff Gordon release ever made even back to the first Racing Champions and Matchbox releases. The only ones that are even remotely hard to find are very limited promotional items, short run, or "no run" cars that were supposed to be destroyed.

NASCAR collectables (in my experience) generally lose value as time goes on. Especially after a driver retires and fades from the memory of most collectors. How many people out there are really looking for a Kulwicki car and are willing to really bid against someone for it? Ernie Irvan car anyone? jmo
 

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#1 "BLANIAC"
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20,242 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Production is the key sometimes, but then on others it's not. The Earnhardt Taz and the Peter Max were in the 80,000-100,000 range I believe, and they were and still to a greatly lesser degree colectible. But I see what you are saying, throw in the Elites, the c/w/b's the b/w/b's the Snap-On cars, WC etc., there sure were alot!
 

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Legendary Member
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BLACKER said:
They should produce less to get in line with demand. Overproduction is what drives prices down, plain and simple. It is the first domino in the line.
The collectors snatch up the first wave at regular price. The rest sit there. Be it PitsStops, WC, DS, RCCA, whatever ... there are more cars than buyers. The price then plummets. The sellers have to move the product even if it means taking a loss.
1st thing this does is piss off the guys who paid full price, because now there are guys that are not really that big of a fan to begin with paying pennies on the dollar for the same car.
2nd thing it does is piss off the seller. He is losing money on all this. Be it WalMart, Target, whoever.

Results? Everything we are hearing here.
Fewer sellers carry this stuff. They cannot afford to continue taking the loss.
Fewer buyers. If simply for the fact that no one likes to feel like a fool. Who wants to look at the collection they have paid thousands of dollars for over the year and realize its not even worth hundreds now? The most devote collectors still do not want to buy what ends up being junk.
Those that remain for more than a year or two do what I do. Let the first wave pass, and then buy up the cars I want later when the price drops out. That way, at least I do not feel dumb a year from now when I see the car on ebay for $1 ... cuz thats about all I paid for it anyways! :O)
Well, Blacker, you have hit it on the head here. Now that Uncle Freddy is back in control, we're really in trouble. I went to a couple of stores today, and there were the pretty new Dale Jr. cars, just sitting there for $69.95 apiece, and I was all ready to pick them up for full retail price until I looked at the labels on the boxes and saw the production numbers.

AMP/Mountain Dew - 136, 540
National Guard - 104,440

Are you freaking kidding me? Has Action lost their minds? These numbers are insane. If I wait six months, I will be able to buy these cars for $25 apiece on Ebay. I have NEVER passed up a brand new Junior car, but this is ridiculous. No wonder Action is going into the tank. More diecast to sit on the shelf and never be sold. By the way, in case you guys haven't seen it, I saw on another board (DCW) that Action is on the blocks to be sold!!!!
 
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