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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
well every year I do this just to see what would have been. So if you wondered too....here you go.


Points with Nextel rules :

1 Jimmie Johnson -----6723
2 Jeff Gordon ---------6646
3 Clint Bowyer --------6377
4 Matt Kenseth------- 6298
5 Kyle Busch ----------6293
6 Tony Stewart -------6242
7 Kurt Busch ----------6231
8 Jeff Burton ----------6231
9 Carl Edwards --------6222
10 Kevin Harvick ------6199
11 Martin Truex Jr.----6164
12 Denny Hamlin------6143

with old Winston rules:

1 Jeff Gordon -------5455
2 Jimmie Johnson ----5102
3 Tony Stewart -----4749
4 Matt Kenseth -----4718
5 Denny Hamlin ------4623
6 Kyle Busch---------4585
7 Carl Edwards ------4574
8 Clint Bowyer-------4556
9 Jeff Burton---------4549
10 Kurt Busch -------4371
11 Kevin Harvick -----4344
12 Martin Truex Jr.----4314
 

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I knew Gordon would have got it, but I see Stewart Hamlin would have even finished in a better position then what they did with the new points system.

Just goes to show you, the new way isn't they way to go, because not only does it screw up the championship but also the other top 10 positions.
 

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Vengence is Mine
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Wow, that is a crazy points jump from second to first. That 4 race streak by JJ only makes a difference when you completely ignore the rest of the season I guess.
Seems like so long ago, but Gordon did win 2 of the chase races also, I almost forgot.

JJ .. no two time champ in my book.
 

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Don't thank me, thank Justice Fruit Pies!
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Congrats to Gordon on his 6th championship...
 

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I have to agree, The Older way just is more fair of a system for the drivers for the whole season. If you look at the guys that it effected the most you also see the true runnings that those teams preformed.
Not taking sides toward Jimmy or Gordon, I like them bothegually! But Gordon really should be the 6 time champion!!
 

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I hate to say it, But Gordon had a better complete season. He deserved it, but unfortunately JJ got it because of the rules and the bonuses given for the chase!!!
 

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As much I love the old-school, that whole classic ponits thing is BS. You can not determine how the classic standings end up by how the races under the system are run. For example notice how Talladega has become single-file races in the last 2 fall events. Is it becaue of the COT? The track? Nope. It is because of the chase. People were afraid of taking risks because they would either fall to the back or possible get caught up in the Big One.

Long story, short. The chase has changed the mindsets of the drivers and the teams and because of that you can't really tell how the standings would truly turn out under the old system.
 

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#1 "BLANIAC"
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KK3869 said:
As much I love the old-school, that whole classic ponits thing is BS. You can not determine how the classic standings end up by how the races under the system are run. For example notice how Talladega has become single-file races in the last 2 fall events. Is it becaue of the COT? The track? Nope. It is because of the chase. People were afraid of taking risks because they would either fall to the back or possible get caught up in the Big One.

Long story, short. The chase has changed the mindsets of the drivers and the teams and because of that you can't really tell how the standings would truly turn out under the old system.
Do you really think so KK? I mean, in the end, IT'S STLL ALL ABOUT THE POINTS. You drive to enable yourself to acrue the most points per event. IMO, the only thing that has changed is the system, and how and when the points are configured, awarded, credited and applied. I see NO difference in anything, they race for as many points as they can get, except NASCAR wipes the slate clean before the final 10 races, and then AGAIN, they race to get as many points as possible. Again, JMHO....
 

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FFighter_21 said:
KK3869 said:
As much I love the old-school, that whole classic ponits thing is BS. You can not determine how the classic standings end up by how the races under the system are run. For example notice how Talladega has become single-file races in the last 2 fall events. Is it becaue of the COT? The track? Nope. It is because of the chase. People were afraid of taking risks because they would either fall to the back or possible get caught up in the Big One.

Long story, short. The chase has changed the mindsets of the drivers and the teams and because of that you can't really tell how the standings would truly turn out under the old system.
Do you really think so KK? I mean, in the end, IT'S STLL ALL ABOUT THE POINTS. You drive to enable yourself to acrue the most points per event. IMO, the only thing that has changed is the system, and how and when the points are configured, awarded, credited and applied. I see NO difference in anything, they race for as many points as they can get, except NASCAR wipes the slate clean before the final 10 races, and then AGAIN, they race to get as many points as possible. Again, JMHO....
Like I said, if that was the case, why were they racing single-file at Talladega the last two years?
 

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I agree KK. The Chase has forced drivers to get more aggressive in the final 10 races and take some risks strategy wise or in the case of Talladega, play it safe until the end. If the Chase didn't apply and Gordon had a 400 point lead still, he would most likely be riding it out and going conservative to not lose it. Notice how in the Busch Series, once Edwards got that huge lead he started to play conservative and everyone else started inching closer at the end but he was so far ahead they didn't have time to catch up. The reason being the Chase is so close at the beginning everyone has to get aggressive but if the points didn't reset how do you think Gordon would have raced the last 10 when he had a 400+ points advantage? My guess would be conservatively, but there's no way of knowing because the Chase forced him to be aggressive.
 

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#1 "BLANIAC"
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KK3869 said:
FFighter_21 said:
KK3869 said:
As much I love the old-school, that whole classic ponits thing is BS. You can not determine how the classic standings end up by how the races under the system are run. For example notice how Talladega has become single-file races in the last 2 fall events. Is it becaue of the COT? The track? Nope. It is because of the chase. People were afraid of taking risks because they would either fall to the back or possible get caught up in the Big One.

Long story, short. The chase has changed the mindsets of the drivers and the teams and because of that you can't really tell how the standings would truly turn out under the old system.
Do you really think so KK? I mean, in the end, IT'S STLL ALL ABOUT THE POINTS. You drive to enable yourself to acrue the most points per event. IMO, the only thing that has changed is the system, and how and when the points are configured, awarded, credited and applied. I see NO difference in anything, they race for as many points as they can get, except NASCAR wipes the slate clean before the final 10 races, and then AGAIN, they race to get as many points as possible. Again, JMHO....
Like I said, if that was the case, why were they racing single-file at Talladega the last two years?
I wasn't looking for it in particular, but I didn't really notice any difference @ Talladega the last two years over however many there have been in modern day racing history.
They Run Balls Out in the beginning, conservatively in the mioddle, and then Balls Out again at the end.
But, like I said, I didn't watch it and compare it to previous years. You may well be right, but "It is what it is......"
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i have had about enough of hearing about Gordons 6th championship. the rules are what the rules are.

lets take this and relate them to football. going into the chase Gordon was winning. and Johnson as a "wildcard" so to speak came in and won it because of how they do things. So lets take a trip back to Superbowl 15, Eagles vs Raiders. Eagles come into the playoffs with the better record and the Raiders come in as a wildcard team. well by the time SuperBowl is over the Raiders are the new Champions, even though Philly still had the better record stats wise(Philly 12-4, Raiders 11-5). So should they have been giving congrats to Philly for a championship they didnt win? NO!. I dont like the new points any more than anyone but it seems eveytime the points system doesnt work to Gordons advantage there is an issue and we get a whole new story of how the system is failed. Well if we look at the chase history....we have had 4 chases and 4 champs. all four have had chase points leaders goin into the chase and twice Gordon has failed to make it to his championship. Stewart and Johnson both pulled it off, even with the same rules, but Gordon couldnt? So where is the issue?
 

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Vengence is Mine
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Football and NASCAR cannot logically be compared.
Difference being, Raiders and Eagles did not still have to deal with the Cardinals, the Browns, the Dolphins and every other loser team still being on the field. In a playoff, the losers sit out. Gordon and Johnson sill have 35 cars out there to deal with. If it is a 12 car playoff, then there only needs to be 12 cars on the track.
Difference #2, the Raiders (the wildcard) was not given free points and the bye week. Jimmy Johnson was given an extra 400 points and the lead when the chase started.
How fair would it be for the Eagles to work hard all year, build the best record, just to be told that the Raiders now get the bye week because they had more touchdowns passes or something? The best team gets the bye and the homefield advantage, they get rewarded for their year's worth of hard work. In NASCAR, the best team gets shafted. (At least this year.)

The point are what they are, and it is fair in the fact that everyone knows it going in. However, it is a stupid system that rewards mediocrity, and the champion each year is now a result of luck more than any other factor.
True sports is not about luck, or at least it should not be, you are taught week in and week out, the better team will prevail in the end. That is why you practice, that is why you play. That is no longer the case in NASCAR.
 

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the better team in any sport does not always prevail. as they say....that is why you play the game.
 

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Joker you put how it would be with the old points system, so me and Trev said congrats to Gordon. Plus it shows you comparison to Dale Sr. and how Gordon is catching up to the ledgend and mabe he can (Unofficially) break that record lol
 

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Not always, but as a general rule they do, and that is why they play the game, to see who is the better team. If luck is how a champion is decided, there would be NO need to play the game, simply flip a coin.
As far as the Raiders and Eagles, the lesser team had to overcome many obstacles and earn their right to become champion. In NASCAR that is no longer the case. JJ had his deficit simply erased, he was then given the lead at the start of the chase and that was that.
I do not think the Raiders would be looked on nearly as kindly if they were just given the bye week, and had the points reset in the game during the 4th quater and told whoever scores the most in the last 10 minutes is super bowl champ.

They are now calling Jimmy the greatest champion ever, not even Dale Sr or Gordon won two in a row to follow their first title. I think it is just silly to try and compare Jimmy Johnson to Dale Sr at this point, but this new chase tries to do that, and the falling interest in the sport is the result. False competition, everybody is a superstar, and one race decides your champion. Silly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
i fully agree with you Billy, like i said i dont like Gordon but he earned his points, and as much as it hurts me to say it, he should have won by the old point scale. all i am compairing is the fact that everyone is congrating Gordon on a championship he didnt win, so i guess we should congrat every team that has the better record but the lesser score. i have always said that if someone earns their points they should be able to keep them, but that isnt how it is. by the point scale we have now, Johnson is champ reguardless, not Gordon. i would have rather seen Stewart with a third place finish over his 6th place finish that is in the record book, but there is no way of changing it. The point system is what it is and it is flawed but nothing will change the history books. But at the same time the last 2 years the points have been wiped out and the Stewart and Johnson still won their championship by old point rule and new points rule, so where is Gordon lacking?
 

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Everyone has an opinion, I am not trying to change anyone elses, I just do not like the new system, I think it cheapens the sport. Thats my opinion.
Everyone else can like it, I just do not. It does not have so much to do with who won or lost the title, just the fact that luck is now the single most deciding factor in the championship. That is not the sport I started watching, it is not a system that I will support with my money.

I didn't go to any races this year, I went to 4 football games instead. I will do the same next year.
I did not watch as many races this year, will probably watch even less next year. Most of it is just that I have trouble taking it seriously anymore, it seems silly and contrived to me most of the time. I am not whining about anything, just saying that I am finding other things to do in what USED to be my race time, and if other people are not watching like me (as the ratings suggest) that this might be their reason as well.
 

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Who is calling Jimmie the greatest champion ever?
 
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